The wiring in our Philippine house is described at http://myphilippinelife.com/our-philippine-house-project-philippine-electrical-wiring/
Our electric utility is a cooperative, Ileco 1. Ileco supplies 240v residential service with two service wires, a 240v load and a neutral or ground. We wired our house accordingly, using single-pole breakers. We always anticipated that we’d have a backup generator and so we installed underground two #10 AWG wires from the panel box to the storage room in the garage, where we proposed to put the generator once we bought one.
While New OK sells several brands of generators, the owner recommended the Chinese Weima generators as cheap and reliable, with good availability and fair pricing of parts. We were toying with buying a Honda generator but the owner told us not to waste our money. The basic Honda generator we had in mind sells for about P37,000. We ended up buying a Weima 3200 generator for P13,000. The generator is rated at 2800 watts. Since we only wanted to run lights, fans and refrigerator, we calculated our load at 1,500 watts. Since motors can draw much more current when they start up, we felt that the Weima 3200 would work for us. We wanted to get a unit light enough for us to put in the back of our Toyota Innova to take it in for service. The Weima 3200 weighs about 45 kilos or just about 100 lbs. Moving to a generator in the 5,000 watt range, or getting a diesel generator would mean a 200 lb. unit, too heavy for us to load.
With excitement, we got our new generator home. We started it up just to hear it run. It started on the first pull. Then Bob got out his voltmeter to check the output of the three terminal plug on the front of of the generator. There was a three prong twist-lock outlet. The outlet has three terminals, one load, one neutral and one ground. There was also a separate terminal to ground the generator frame. The voltmeter showed that neither of the output pins provided anything like 240v. One load pin measured 164v to ground and the other about 56v to ground for a total of 220v. The generator was obviously set up to be installed at a residence with TWO load leads. The two generator outputs would then feed about 220v to the panel box. So, how was it possible to use the output of the generator when our system has only one load bus. Bob was kicking himself (as he should) for not anticipating this problem.
A reader of the myphilippinelife.com blog, Andrew Archibald, came to our rescue. All backup generators must be connected in such a way that voltage from the generator can never feed back into the utility lines. To do so would be a grave danger to utility workers. Generally a DPDT transfer switch is installed which allows either the generator or utility power to flow to the main panel box. When the switch is set to “generator” all connections to the utility grid are cut off.
Regarding the above illustration, the top two wires are the feed from the utility company, the bottom two wires are from the generator and the middle pair feed the load and neutral buses of the panel box. There is a cover which encloses the switch but it’s removed so that the wiring can be seen.
With the transfer switch in the normal “utility” mode, the panel box is powered by one 240v load wire and one neutral, both from our electric utility company. The house wiring mirrors this. Each outlet is powered by one 240v load wire and one neutral. Mr. Archibald’s solution is to essentially transform the house circuits when the transfer switch is set to “generator”. Instead of the one “hot” load wire and one neutral from Ileco, the house wiring is supplied by the load and neutral wires from the generator, which, taken together, equal 220v delivered to the outlets. In essence, the wiring of the transfer switch changes the house wiring from the SWER system to a more conventional urban two load wire system. This is the basic solution, but to apply it safely required thinking through some complex neutral and grounding issues. We could never have done this on our own. Mr. Archibald determinedly thought through the issues through and proposed how the wiring should be done. Below is a wiring diagram which shows some aspects of how the transfer switch and panel box were wired. This is only to show how we solved our problem, but it could be very unsafe to try to apply the same solution elsewhere without advice from a good electrical engineer. Note that with the generator in operation, the neutral is delivering some of the load.
We rewired our transfer switch, panel box and generator following Mr. Archibald’s suggestions. It worked almost perfectly. The very next day we had a 8.5 hour power outage and ran the generator for 6.5 hours. It mostly powered the washing machine, water pump and refrigerator. All of those ran fine.
The Weima generator ran flawlessly, using approximately five liters of gasoline for the 6.5 hours or about .75 liter per hour. The fuel tank holds fifteen liters, so overnight operation without a refill seems realistic.
Normally we would not use the generator during the day. Our two main reasons for having a generator are for very long outages, such as in the wake of a typhoon, when we’d need power for our large refrigerator, and being able to run our outdoor security lights at night. We live in a somewhat isolated rural location and feel more vulnerable when our property and the entire neighborhood is pitch black. However these long outages have a silver lining; the karaoke machines and boom boxes all fall silent!




April 27, 2013 at 5:42 pm
I WANT TO THANK ALL WHO POSTED HERE.THE INFO IS VERY INTERESTING I AM A DISABLED VETERAN, PLANNING TO RETIRE IN THE PHILIPPINES. I WAS NOTICING NOTHING MENTIONED ABOUT PROPANE GENERATORS. I LIKE THE GENERAC 17KW AUTOMATIC STANDBY GENERATOR,WHICH ONLY OPERATES OFF OF NATURAL GAS OR PROPANE. MINIMUM 250 GALLON TANK, I CAN’T SEEM TO FIND ONE ONLINE THERE I THE PHILIPPINES OR A SUPPLIERS THAT CAN SERVICE IT. CAN ANYONE HELP ME ON THIS ONE ????
CONTACT ME AT GYSGT.KURT@YAHOO.COM
April 28, 2013 at 9:32 am
Kurt,
Thanks for your inquiry. I suggest that you wait to select a generator after you figure out exactly where you will be settling in the Philippines. Buy one for which parts are readily available from a reputable local dealer who will provide on-site service. The best generator is eventually going to need parts and service and getting parts for generators (or anything else) not widely sold in the Philippines can be a problem. To my knowledge, most higher end generators here are diesel.
Bob
March 15, 2013 at 12:16 am
I thought I would post a comment here just in case someone reads this and wants to know what is happening. Not to be a jerk but alot of comments have been posted and nobody seems to really grasp what is happening.
Normally there would be a ground wire which would ideally have 0V and a hot wire which would ideally have 220VAC. But generator is producing two seperate AC voltages of 54 VAC and 166 VAC. But the voltages are completely out of phase.
Meaning the difference in voltage is 220V which means using that you can use either one as the hot wire and the other as the ground wire will work because the only thing that really matters is the difference in voltage.
The only reason to pay attention to color coding in wiring is to not accidentally touch a live wire or create shorts. But since all the other wiring internally is fine (I assume) you dont have to worry too much how you connect it. You will get 220VAC across you wall outlets and light switches. it does not really matter to appliances which one is neutral or hot. That is why you can take most plugs and reverse the connection and it will still work fine
September 29, 2012 at 7:24 pm
As I observed regarding your electrical wiring is not totally safe,if you noticed your source is from cooperative ILECO and the voltage system is multi grounded it means the hot wire (insulated) is 230 volts with stabilized of grounding system (uninsulated) or it means a complete circuit. In your Distribution panel the wiring system is using only a single pole Circuit breaker for the Hot line and the ground system is commonly separate with a busbar, there is no neutral for multi grounding system in fact that is a zero voltage. I’m also an electrical contractor in iloilo and any kind of system of electrical source (multi grounding or line to line) I equipped/ utilized double pole circuit breaker for fully protection purposes,any circuit getting trouble or short is individually protected. Likewise also noticeable you are using a knife switch type for your normal and generator power which is not compatible to your Distribution Panel and that’s an old style, instead you can find available Circuit breaker with manual interlock for normal and generator power supply.Moreover as per illustrated of your schematic diagram try to correct it because there is no positive and negative (+/ -) from AC source (alternating current) graphically in sinusoidal wave, only DC source (direct current) can detect the positive and negative (+ /-), therefore your voltage from the generator is 230V corresponded of L1-L2. Finally I’m not satisfied the workmanship of your electrician especially the termination inside of the panel and they don’t arranged the wire properly. My suggestion to the readers if you have a plan to build your house shall be hired the qualified electrical personnel with having a capabilities for any modification or alteration of your electrical system, Remember electricity is very risk if doing malpractice… happy reading!!!!!
October 1, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Julito,
Thanks for your comment. When we did our wiring we used single pole breakers because we believed in the principle that the neutral should never be interrupted. However we now realize that the “ground” in a SWEAR system is not the same as a neutral in a more typical system. It can carry current and should be protected by a breaker. Therefore, we do plan on rewiring our panel box using double pole breakers with both the hot and “ground” protected. Any failures in workmanship are our alone — no Filipino electrician is to blame — only yours truly. Thanks again for your comment.
Bob and Carol
December 4, 2012 at 4:29 pm
I also use Atlanta uPVC thick wall pipes & G.E 2 poles bolt on circuit breakers in my works. I use Poly uPVC pipe connectors in connecting the pipes to the panelboard to protect the wires from the metal casing of the panelboard.
I also use nema type enclosures transfer switch with G.E bolt on breakers. Feel free to contact me if i can be of help.
Terp’z @ terpz9@yahoo.com
June 14, 2012 at 3:45 am
Hi Bob! What does SWER Area stand for? Since you are happy with the generator that you are using, that’s good enough for Ester and I.
Warm Regards,
Paul & Ester
June 17, 2012 at 10:34 am
Paul,
Check out http://myphilippinelife.com/our-philippine-house-project-philippine-electrical-wiring/ and see if that helps explain it.
Bob
October 3, 2012 at 2:21 pm
hi sir Bob, I saw and read a lot of comments here, very successful blog. Thanks for sharing your ideas and knowledge in electrical field. I really appreciate. Im new electrical engineer and admit still lack of skills and practice on wiring, my job is on cost estimation and little experience on wiring. I would like to ask you many questions especially in lighting design. My family in the province will planning to build their house, I have already a plan, all i need to do is to make sure the lighting designs are good and has an appropriate illumination, thru kitchen, living room etc. Thanks and hope u could help me
April 15, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Just come across this thread and find it “interesting” would be interested to hear the final outcome. Hope nobody got electrocuted in the mean time.
April 15, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Bill, any reason you think we should have been electrocuted? The set-up has worked fine so far.
Bob
April 16, 2012 at 5:43 pm
If you wire the neutral as -120 and the Live as +120 between the two you get 240v AC.
Since it is a vector addition and you are getting the above result. Then they must be in phase with each other. Now to my thinking if you are using both the Line and the Neutral to supply current then the RCCB will never operate if there is an earth fault on the “washing machine” or whatever.
Presuming of course that you have a RCCB installed.. Knowing Kabayan wiring this is always a good idea and one of the first things we did when we moved into our house in Tagaytay.
What am I missing ?.
BTW- Great Blog
April 19, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Bill,
I’m a bit over my head here but I agree with you. I just don’t see how a RCCB/GFI can work with single wire earth return systems. They are just one big ground fault all the time! Maybe I’ll have to buy one and give it a try.
Bob
August 20, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Looking at the wiring diagram again, when the generator is supplying power to the house, the neutral busbar becomes another hot line with the type of genset used and therefore needs to be properly isolated to the ground ( Not accidentally connected to the service panel metallic part). I do hope that it is currently wired so that the lower voltage terminal (64V) of the generator is the one that will be connected to the neutral busbar when power source will be on generator.
August 20, 2011 at 1:51 pm
I came across this blog and I should say that this is very informative and interesting. I just have one comment on the wiring diagram when the house is powered by the genset. When your house is supplied by a genset, it is operating like the typical 115V on each line (both lines are hot) but your distribution panel was redesigned for one hot and neutral. The second hot line is not connected to a circuit breaker in the distribution panel (which is supposed to be when both lines are hot) when the house is on genset power since that same line is also used as a neutral when power is coming from the utility . The generator doesn’t fit the electrical system in your area and should be replaced with a 230v to neutral output voltage.
August 21, 2011 at 7:19 pm
Andrei,
I do believe you are correct. When the switch is in the generator position, the connection to the neutral bus is disconnected. There is a breaker built into the generator. The panel box does have two load busses but I put a jumper in, joining the busses. One approach I have thought about is removing the jumper and using double pole breakers. That way, when in the generator position, both load wires would be protected. When in the mains position the second bus would be the neutral. What do you think? Am I missing something?
Bob
August 21, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Bob,
It is not advisable to protect the neutral wire with the breaker when power is coming from utility. So far, the only temporary solution I have in mind is to install a double pole circuit breaker near the transfer switch. That breaker will be in between the generator and transfer switch, acting as a main double pole breaker of the house when power is coming from the generator. That will be another circuit breaker of the generator but inside your home for added protection ( I don’t want to rely only on the generator built in breaker). The challenge is still on the branch circuits which are still using single pole breakers.
August 22, 2011 at 9:41 am
Andrei,
I realize that it’s considered bad practice to have any interruption of the neutral, but it’s very common to use duplex breakers with the single hot lead system such as we have. Both the load and neutral are “protected”. As a practical matter, if you use the GE breakers which are physically linked, it’s impossible to interrupt the neutral without also switching off the load. Almost all household wiring is done that way here. Isn’t this the lesser of evils?
Bob
August 22, 2011 at 5:49 pm
If I were on your shoes and facing the same dilemma and needs to make things work at it’s best and what is available, I would probably going towards the same option. Just use breakers which are also electrically linked.
Regards,
Andrei
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March 10, 2011 at 10:08 am
If I was you. I would take my volt meter and go back to dealer and have them start a gen set like the one you bought and check voltage. Maybe you got a lemon. Even still if it is the same run off from the manufacture it could be bad. I worked on a carrier A/C one time on a commerical building and installed a new compressor, we ended up putting 11 compressors in the same unit in 2 weeks before the distributor finally owned up and told us that they had a run of bad compressors at their factory. They was trying to tell us we was not installing them correctly.
March 9, 2011 at 5:42 am
Voltage drop should be accounted for on any long circuit run with an appreciable load. But in this case it is probably not a significant factor.
The voltage drop can be calculated by multiplying the resistance of the wire by the current. You could look up the resistance of #10 AWG stranded copper wire in table 8 of the NEC (0.00124 ohms per foot). Multiply that by the number of wire feet from the generator to the transfer switch and then back to the generator. Then multiply that by the expected current load.
Or you could use a handy voltage drop calculator like this one.
Assuming a 30-amp load and a 50-foot one-way wire run from generator to house, the voltage drop with #10 conductors should be only 1.5%, quite acceptable. Even if you increase the distance to 75 feet and increase the load to 35 amps, the voltage drop is still less than 3%, still acceptable.
In general the voltage drop should be less than 3% for any branch circuit and less than 5% to the furthest outlet.
If you do the calculations and find the voltage drop is too high, you can move the load closer to the source, or increase the size of the wire (in the U.S. a third option might be to switch from a 120V load to a 240V load to halve the current).
It would be easy to measure the voltage drop. While the generator is operating under load, measure the voltage from hot to hot at the generator and again from hot to hot at the transfer switch. The voltage drop times the current is the power in watts lost in heating the wires.
March 8, 2011 at 2:21 pm
If you are getting 260v at gen set between the 2 hot legs with no load and only 185v when operating equipment, it sounds to me like you are over loading the gen set. Or it could be you are losing voltage from gen set to breaker panel. 10 gauge wire seams to me is not big enough to run all the equipment you are trying to operate. How far is your gen set from the disconnect which you are showing. The longer the run the bigger the wires have to be. This is why I think they have so many electrical fires in Philippines is because they undersize their wire sizes to save money or use what size they have on hand. Here in states you can find same electrical set up as in the Philippines, it is just according to what type of transformer the power company puts on the pole to get 230v. We call them stinger leg because they will use 230v on 1 leg and no voltage on other when checking to ground. Equipment usually dosen’t care what voltage is going to what leg as long as it is the correct voltage when it gets to the motor. I bought 230 volt A/C units in states and shipped them to Philippines and they seam to work ok. On board ships we had 120v,each leg going to light or equipment had 65v to get 120v and no problem. The ship was the ground because it was in the water. Also high voltage and low voltage will harm equipment. Manufacture usually says no more then 10% high or low unless specified.
March 8, 2011 at 5:20 pm
George,
Thanks for your post. I think my post was not very well written. I’m in over my head on this stuff! Anyway, when measured at the generator when it’s not hooked up to anything the output is 220v (164+56). Hooked up to the house, as measured at an outlet in the house, it’s about 260v (185+75). (UPDATE: this 260v is likely due to a problem with the multimeter) I have no idea why that is and I am worried that it may damage appliances. The odd thing is that our Hunter ceiling fans and our microwave oven seemed to run as though the voltage was low. I don’t understand that either. The lighting, refrigerator and water pump all seemed to run fine and those are the main reason we have a backup genset. Any thoughts?
According to the Philippine electrical code, #10 AWG THHN wire has an allowable ampacity of 40 amps. At 240v that’s 9,600 watts, far above the highest output of the generator at 3,200 watts, so I don’t see a problem there. All of our house wiring is 12 AWG except ground wires which are #14 AWG.
Bob
March 7, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Yes, you have to Bond the house ground and genset ground. First, is it for safety. without that grounds bonded, you could have potential difference. It’ll probably fix the problem. It is cause by a floating neutral, that’s why you have an inbalance output. If that doesn’t fix it, I’ll send you some single phase genset prints and manual.
March 8, 2011 at 8:56 am
Edgardo,
OK, we’ll try it and let you know what happens. Thanks for the advice. By the way, I went to the CumminsPowerSouth.com website and looked at the small generators. This one http://www.cumminsonan.com/portable/products/standby/compare?gensetId=88&detail=true looks absolutely identical, specs are the same, to the Weima we bought, except for the outlets. The online store prices are good!
Bob
March 8, 2011 at 12:47 pm
(from Andrew Archibald)
Hi Bob,
I agree. Connecting the generator ground to the house ground will increase safety, and it should also help balance the voltages of the two hots to ground. But only if the neutral and ground are bonded at the generator, as it should be in your case. I don’t expect it will lower the output voltage from 259V down to something near 230V, but crazier things have happened. (I wrote this earlier this morning in an email to you before i accidentally blew it away.)
Luckily you are not using the neutral from the generator. If you were, you would have to disconnect it from the generator ground and connect it instead to the neutral from the house, which would mean running yet another wire between the house and the generator.
It’s important that any electrical service have the neutral and ground bonded at exactly one point, usually at the service disconnect for utility power. If the generator neutral is connected to the house neutral, the the generator neutral can no longer be bonded to ground. If it were, then the ground wire between house and generator would be in parallel with the neutral wire between house and generator. That would mean having neutral currents flow on the ground wire–a big no-no.
I apologize if that last paragraph is too much information. Usually a standby generator feeding a house would not have the neutral and ground bonded, but in your case since you are not using the neutral the bond does no harm and should help keep the hot voltages balanced. Connecting the house ground and generator ground should help even more. I’m eager to find out what happens if you chose to.
-Andrew
August 12, 2011 at 10:32 am
Hi Bob
Have been reading your “how to hook up a generator” with interest, as I will be doing this in the not-so-distant future.
But I am confused (easily done nowadays!). The three generator terminals are described as live, neutral and earth; the diagram kindly supplied by Andrew Archibald shows TWO connections from the generator to the DP switch; so far so good! But in a subsequent correspondence on here, when agreeing that the house and generator earths should be bonded, Mr Archibald says “only if the neutral and ground are bonded at the generator, as it should be in your case” and “Luckily you are not using the neutral from the generator” – hence my confusion.
Which generator terminals are wired up to the DP switch please?
August 12, 2011 at 12:52 pm
John,
Only the two hot leads (one about 156v one about 64v go from the generator to the DPDT switch. The generator neutral is not used. The generator ground is grounded to nearby rebar in the building where the generator is located. The generator neutral and ground are not bonded.
So when the generator is running the three wire house circuits are connected as: hot (black), hot (white), ground (green), so it’s pretty much like a conventional 110+110 220v circuit.
When operating from our utility company the outlets are “rewired” by the DPDT switch to have one 220v hot wire (black), one neutral (white) and a ground (green). The neutral and ground are really the same as they are bonded in the panel box.
In effect, the switch changes the use of the house’s neutral (white) wiring from being a neutral/ground in the utility mode to being the second hot wire in the generator mode!
It’s an amazing concept to me, but it does work.
I hope this helps.
August 13, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Yes thanks Bob, now I understand it!!
One thing though – I think someone mentioned this a while ago, but earthing via a building re-bar isnt really a very good earth.
Thanks again
John
August 14, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Glad I could help John. There’s been a lively discussion about rebar grounding at the main article about Philippine electrical wiring at http://myphilippinelife.com/our-philippine-house-project-philippine-electrical-wiring/ If you want to explore this further, take a look at this file: http://www.creia.org/files/public/grounding_electrode_locked.pdf
March 7, 2011 at 11:07 am
Here in US, you can get a better deal @ Costco. They sell a Cummins Onan RS20 with an automatic transfer switch and in house monitor for under $6K.
March 7, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Edgardo,
$6000? Our Weima cost P13,000 or less than $300! I looked at the RS 20 (http://onsitepowergenerators.com/Onan_RS20A_GSBB.asp) and it looks like a great and sophisticated unit. I thought about an LPG powered unit. That would be nice because you would not need to worry about fuel stabilization and deterioration. Still, we are on a budget and besides want something we can put in the back of the car to take in for repair.
What about smaller 240v units, say 3,000 watt? You could put one in a balikbayan box and send it to us.!
Bob
March 7, 2011 at 10:57 am
Check the service manual on the generator, typically a 3 wire, single phase genset would have 120 VAC between L1 & Neutral, 120VAC between L2 & Neutral and 240 VAC between L1 & L2.
It is supposed to be balance on the center tap, unless the chinese change the rule. I hope that you have a good warranty.
Additionally, most common mistake people makes installing genset is the mounting elevation. It should be the at least 2-3 ft above the ground, so it wont be flooded when it rain. It is also easier to work on, if it needs repair or maintenance.
I have been installing and servicing genset for 13 years.
We produce, sell, install, service and repair our generators.
Cummins-Onan. They merged 30 years ago.
March 7, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Edgardo,
Remember, that in the Philippines there is no dual 115/230 service, just 230v so there is less need for the two legs to be balanced. Maybe that allows the Chinese to make a cheaper genset? Everything seemed to run fine on the unbalanced loads except the microwave and maybe the ceiling fans. Next time I run the generator I’m going to reverse the way the microwave is plugged in to see if it likes 66/184v versus 184/66v! Another contributor has suggested that a connection between the generator neutral and the house ground might help balance the load. I’ll try it sometime.
Great idea about getting the generator up high. Also makes it easier to change the oil.
Bob
March 7, 2011 at 10:38 am
When I built my house in Samar I planned for a backup Gen set. I over designed my panel box to insure I would not be supplying town with power and electrocuting power workers. I installed panel which has 2 150amp contactors which will only close when they sense power from which power source you are using. Also you have to flip a toggle switch to close the contactor. Both are wired so neither will close at the same time. If voltage drops to low contactors will drop out so you are not trying to run equipment on low voltage. I also installed volt and amp meters to check and see how many amps house was pulling and what voltage electrical company was suppling. Found that during day voltage drops to 180v when power is being used, but at night voltage go’s up to 290v. I guess this is because Samar is low man on the totam pole for power, seeing as they have no power plants and receives power from Leyte and Luzon, if they are not sucking it all up before it gets to the end of the extension cord.
March 7, 2011 at 3:02 pm
George,
Thanks for your interesting post. 290v! Does that cause any problems with appliances? We’re worried about the 260v from our generator.
Bob
November 18, 2011 at 6:18 pm
Bob, thanks so very much! This article has helped me greatly! Just as soon as I get back home in Antique I will start to make my way to this dealer in ILOILO! You have given me some great information. I too have brown out seems to be every Sunday 8-10 hours at a time. I am the type of fellow that likes to have his cold beer LOL! Please email me if you do not mind!
Sincerely THANKS!
November 22, 2011 at 9:34 pm
Thanks Chris. Contact me anytime at hammerslag@gmail.com
Bob